54 Comments
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gc's avatar

Wow, Mr. Lyman. I think your best article yet. Touches on so many universal themes and weaves together yesterday, today and tomorrow so seamlessly… bravissimo!!!

Franky Be's avatar

It was a interesting read for sure

Eric J Lyman's avatar

What a nice compliment, grazie!

I think I needed quite a few of my own wrinkles to understand their value. That said, I need to get more serious about using face cream.

Glenda Mitchell's avatar

Love the analogy and a very enlightening piece.

It's something that I particularly like about Rome. It is a mix of old and new and everything in between. Many places are attempting to obliterate the past. as if getting rid of old buildings and names is going to eliminate any of the history, particularly the bad stuff. I know it's a sensitive topic and understand that in many instances it has to be done for the society to deal with it and move forward.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Rome is unusual in that way. It did pull down Mussolini statues, but you can still find references to the "epoca fascista" all over town. I think the city displays its difficult history more than most places do.

Glenda Mitchell's avatar

The other place that seems to have "preserved" some of its history is Buenos Aires.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Although they have a lot less history to show ...

I lived in Peru for five years before moving to Italy. That was a place with a lot of history: pre-Inca cultures, the Inca Empire, the conquest, it was a colonial capital. But for many years the Peruvians didn't have the reverence for history (they do now). There were plenty of cases where they bulldozed historical sites to erect something shiny and new.

Nicky Matisse's avatar

Cuzco in Peru preserves its culture, no?

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Yes. And Lima (which is not as old as Cusco) does, too, now. But it wasn’t always the case.

Jenifer Vinson's avatar

I wonder what decisions will be made 20+years from now in the US. Which names will remain? Which will be erased from buildings?

Eric J Lyman's avatar

We're getting a bit off topic, but I do think a lot about how the current age will be judged by history. We're certainly living in interesting times.

Jenifer Vinson's avatar

And the hills of Rome allow us to see so much at once.

Anna Maria's avatar

Are youtalking about pulling down confederate statues in the U.S.?

Glenda Mitchell's avatar

No. I know nothing about that so am in no position to comment.

Domenica Marchetti's avatar

My Zia Elsa (who coincidentally lived in Rome for many years) used to say, “Ogni ruga è un esperienza.”

Eric J Lyman's avatar

I guess Im having a lot more experiences than I used to!

In all seriousness, that’s a really beautiful phrase. I hadn’t heard the idea expressed just that way before. Zia Elsa sound like she was a wise woman.

Domenica Marchetti's avatar

She was slight in stature but had enormous presence.

Antonia Castellani's avatar

The Roman portrait has been studied and described at best by Ranuccio Bianchi Bandinelli (Il ritratto nell’antichità), and especially the portraits from the Republican era are amazing in their apparently unflattering realism. I say apparently, because they were considered very much flattering at the time. Only, what people would notice wasn’t the exterior beauty (symbol of lack of virtue), but the inner qualities, that were what those portraits signified. Forehead wrinkles were symbols of wisdom tempered by age, thin lips signified strength, wrinkled eyes communicated sharpness and vision, a thin face meant self discipline (no rich food for those men), a bold forehead was a clear sign of intelligence. With Augustus the portrait shifted, because emperors were no longer men, they were gods, and gods don’t get old.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

I don't know Bianchi Bandinelli, but it sounds like I should!

I'm fascinated by how things flipped over time. As you wrote, we interpret the ancient statues as unflattering, but people at the time clearly admired them. Those same people would probably look at the cultural icons of today and be completely confused.

Anna Maria's avatar

I think I can guess, but what are your theories (from the very end)?

Eric J Lyman's avatar

I think you're probably guessing right.

I mean, it took hundreds of years after Augustus for Rome to fall, and during that time it conquered new lands and became richer and it could bend other cultures to its will. But looking back at the concentration of power and its excesses, the fall seems inevitable to us.

Also, history moves faster now than it ever did.

Is that what you were thinking?

Franky Be's avatar

Preach brother!

Ivana Esther Martínez's avatar

This was beautifully written. Thank you for the perspective and the poetry. Now it's time for me to go down a rabbit hole of Roman funerary practices!

Eric J Lyman's avatar

It's an interesting rabbit hole to go down!

Ella Chapman's avatar

Fascinating, thank you.

Flavor of Italy's avatar

Eric, you say you have your theories. What are they?

Eric J Lyman's avatar

This is adapted from an earlier reply I wrote. But the way I look at it, it took hundreds of years after Augustus for Rome to fall, and during that time it conquered new lands and became richer and it bent other cultures to its will. But looking back at the concentration of power and its excesses, Rome's fall seems inevitable in retrospect.

Plus, history moves faster now than it ever did. So what once took centuries might now only take decades, maybe less.

Branches to Roots's avatar

This is fascinating and I’d love for you to tell us more about it: “wooden cabinets filled with rows of wax ancestor masks -- imagines -- made just after death and displayed prominently.” I’ve never heard of this 😳

Eric J Lyman's avatar

I only learned about this in the last couple of years in a book by Gregory Aldrete (I don't remember which one; I read two). And it popped up again in a book I'm reading about Cicero, who was considered "common" because he didn't have any ancestor masks in his home (meaning no big shots in his family tree).

What I know is that these were tools for kids to study their ancestors going back centuries, they'd talk abut it as a family, memorize the accomplishments of each one. Kids would commonly be named after ancestors and would maintain the masks, and so on.

It gives new meaning to the idea of a "multi-generational household"!

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Here's a link to a short video where Prof. Aldrete talks about the ancestor masks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkwHhNitf8A&t=14s

Branches to Roots's avatar

Awesome, thank you so much for sharing the video. I suppose before cameras, wide-spread publishing and literacy, this might have been the best way to actually visualize their ancestors. And of course the artifact almost becomes embodied with the family stories associated with it. So interesting! I've heard of funeral masks (I think in France?) that were the origin of things like wax museums. I guess we've always longed to put a face with a name.

Joe Panzica's avatar

We cannot stop from seeing ourselves the way we imagine others see us. And to varying extents we cannot cease striving to manage the way others imagine us. And our blind spots are always rife with comedy, ridden with tragedy, boobytraps for shocks, shames, and illuminating insights.

Maria Seriakov's avatar

A wonderful overview of the spirit of time. Thank you Eric! My take on that. Age and experience were highly valued at times when getting old was considered a luxury. The human life span was munch shorter then. Seneca at 55 was considered a very old man and admired for his advanced age. Later as more and more people could afford getting older it was the looks and the long lasting energy that got more important. And today not taking care of one's physical appearance is considered not taking care of one's health (to a certain extent).

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Also: Times change; we change with them .. love it!

Eric J Lyman's avatar

You’re no doubt correct about the relationship between age and experience on one side and relevance on the other.

I think life expectancy data in the past was skewed by high infant mortality rates. I’ve read that the average person in Republican-era Rome lived to be around 35. But if he/she made it to the age of 10, the person could expect to live until their late 50s or early 60s. The averages were even high for aristocrats. That’s actually not that much different than Garibaldi’s time. But it’s a lot, lot, lot lower than today (now, someone in Italy reaching the age of 10 can expect to live into their late 80s on average).

When you refer to taking care of one’s physical appearance, do you mean being in decent shape, good hygiene, or appropriate dress and lifestyle? Or all of the above?

Maria Seriakov's avatar

At first place the decent shape which results from good hygiene and appropriate lifestyle. The appropriate clothes are still considered as a sign of respect in Italy. (Priceless those guys traveling in pajamas I see at the US airports...)

Beppe Castro's avatar

"The face -- just like wigs or lawns -- stopped recording reality and started managing perception." - I feel like this is approaching something of which I've been curious for some time now. The fascist era iconography, like the DUX obelisk outside of Lo Stadio Olimpico, has not been removed as it probably would've been in the US. I've asked Italians how to interpret the existence of these symbols with little satisfaction in the answers. Is it recording reality instead of rewriting history?

Eric J Lyman's avatar

It really is a fascinating topic ... I have a future post related to this simmering on a back burner. As you know, fascist iconography in Rome isn't limited to the Stadio Olimpico. Some of it couldn't be removed, like EUR, but even easily removable evidence survives. I've got some theories as to why. But I think I'm going to let the idea simmer a bit longer.

Elisabeth's avatar

Very interesting take on self-fashioning! Just a small quibble from someone who has called Rome home forever: to label comune giunte "somewhere on a scale between corrupt and ineffectual" is a bit rich...food for another conversation stretching back to Mayor Sonnino.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

I've been here quite a while myself but I admit I don't even know who Mayor Sonnino is!

Francesco Rutelli was mayor when I arrived and I think he did some good things, and I'd say the same for Walter Veltroni, who succeeded him and who I've interviewed and found to be impressive. And I know some old-timers have a nostalgia for Luigi Petroselli. But I didn't mean that all the city's leaders have been somewhere on that corrupt/ineffectual spectrum ... just MOST of them!

Elisabeth's avatar

I know you didn't mean all of them! Per carità.😂

I just think most metropoli suffer pretty much the same ills & challenges. But then multi-layered Rome is also unique in some ways. Poor Marino (not a Roman) had a rough ride…If your giunta isn't behind you, you’re cooked. Consider that post-WWII until 1993, the mayor was chosen by the city council, not residents.

I stand corrected on Sonnino. He was a prime minister….early 20th c. Pace.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Don’t get me started on Mafia Capitale! That’ll be for a future post.

Agreed on Marino. I think he was a good man, and he must have seemed like a palate cleanser after five years of Alemanno. But Marino had no idea what strings to pull and which buttons to push.

I only now discovered Marino is an MEP … I hadn’t known that. I guess that’s because he keeps a low profile, which is probably a good idea for him.

Elisabeth's avatar

And perhaps a better place for him. Let us know when you get started on Mafia Capitale! Yes, Alemanno certainly poisoned the well.

Antonio (Pipo)'s avatar

OMG! Is that the one and only Lauren Sanchez Bezos? Hahahaha

Eric J Lyman's avatar

The one and only! The caption already tells everyone she's not a statue.

Franky Be's avatar

There are lots of wonderful lines here, but the best one (for me) is that "cultures reveal what they fear most by what they try to hide." I think it's true even for individual people.

Eric J Lyman's avatar

Yes, absolutely true. Great point.

It's even true for bottles of wine (see the comment thread on the post from @stephenscott151000)

Stephen Scott's avatar

Wow. A lot to think about! What an observation!

Eric J Lyman's avatar

It's not completely unrelated to our exchange about wine labels a few weeks back: "A wine label can tell you more about what a wine wants to be than what it is." When I said it was a subject I'd return to, this essay was what I was referring to.