It’s almost incredible (but probably predictable) that the most reasonable voices on Meloni come from abroad, thank you for your post. I disagree with everything she represents, everything she stands for, the famous Io sono Giorgia speach made me sick, and yet I must say she is a better prime minister than I thought possible (admittedly my bar was very low) and I am less ashamed at being represented by her than I was of Berlusconi, to say a name. And Italy finally has a woman in leadership.
Thank you, Antonia! I think there are a lot of people in Italy the situation you are in of being governed by someone they don't often agree with ... as well as a lot of Americans, Israelis, Russians, Hungarians ....
No offense, man, but does that mean you would have supported some aspects of Mussolini in the 1920s, What about Hitler or Franco? No, I like your writing but I disagree ... when there's a leader like Meloni you have to reject her whole agenda and hope the country survives until she's gone.
Thank you for this excellent analysis of the political situation in Italy. I strongly oppose everything Giorgia Meloni stands for, and I find her party’s right-wing direction deeply troubling and damaging in many areas. That said, I appreciate your nuanced perspective.
It’s true that under her leadership, Italy is being perceived differently on the international stage, and I imagine her path to power hasn’t been easy. While I don’t support her or her politics, I can acknowledge that the stability she currently represents is, in some ways, beneficial for the country.
However, it does seem important to remind everyone that since her rise to power, extreme right events commemorating and celebrating fascist anniversaries have increased amid the general indifference or complacency of the authorities. Seeing crowds do the Roman salute with nobody saying anything - it's a crime in Italy - makes me uncomfortable.
She's not extreme right herself but definitely a new right, that can be just as worrying as well.
I do think she's an extreme right leader forced to operate as a center-right political figure with a more radical cultural agenda (the Roman salute also worries me). But the idea of calling her part of a "new right" is popular, but I don't agree completely. Her way of getting there is different but her politics seem pretty typical for someone with her trajectory. I think Le Pen would be similar if she had Meloni's political skill and the political system in Italy.
In any case, thank you very much for the thoughtful comment! I really enjoy this kind of discussion!
I loved reading this! It’s especially relevant given the ongoing power vacuum in Europe, with traditional actors like Germany and France completely unable to lead, at least on a European level. It’s also important to note that governing for 'three consecutive years' is highly unusual within the context of Italy, where governments and coalitions typically fall apart within 1-2 years.
Oh, and one last thing: my favorite fact from all of this remains her love for Tolkien, which I’m told isn’t uncommon in right-wing circles. :D
In a recent conversation, a contact from left-wing circles in Brussels referred to Meloni as 'not extreme right, just the new right.' I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this.
Lots of thoughts, in any event thank you for writing this!
Also, Sema, regarding Tolkien, there's much, much more on that. Not just Tolkien himself, but The NeverEndingStory, Johnathan Livingston Seagull, and more. It's fascinating. If it's of interest, please read John Hooper's reporting on it (see footnote #2 in my post).
Thanks for the comment, Sema. I have thought a lot about whether she's a kind of 'New Right' but the thing is there's not much that links her to Le Pen or Orban or AfD in Germany or Vox in Spain other than their dislike and mistrust of the establishment. If Meloni is a kind of 'New Right' then she's kind of on her own. I think it's more likely that she's changing the way power is achieved and legitimized than it is that she's changing the political spectrum. But I've been wrong about her before ....
I live in the USA and was born and raised here but I also have an Italian citizenship. And I do vote in Italy.
Pretty much consistently for the PD.
What about a story on Elly Schlein? The head of the Italian Democratic Party(PD). I heard a great interview with her on the podcast “pod save America,” and she sounded like she had a lot of good ideas. And a lot of thoughtful criticisms of Meloni. About her overall focus, the healthcare system, and wages. How the cost of energy is the way highest in Europe. Etc.
I have a Roman friend who grew up having street fights with the fascist youth group that Meloni was part of that existed in the Garbatella housing projects in Rome.
Certainly Meloni’s actions are less far right than her earlier rhetoric, especially internationally. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t still believe it and is incrementally trying to change Italy to more fit that vision.
Based on what I know I like Schlein, though I admit I didn't know she'd been on Pod Save America -- I'm going to find that episode. But I don't think she's ever been in street fights against Fascist groups. Schlein grew up in Emilia-Romagna and I never heard about her being involved in that kind of clash. Schlein is also significantly younger than Meloni -- by the time she was in her 20s Meloni was already in parliament.
I like that Schlein and Meloni seem to treat the other with courtesy and respect. I could even imagine them working together on some side issue. I don't know if it's because they're women working in a world dominated by men (or maybe just that women are more inherently decent than men). But I wish that kind of respectful relationship among rivals was more common.
I quoted Schlein in this post. But I don't think I'll write a post focused on her any time soon -- political analysis is too close to my day job. Plus, I don't think there's all that much interest among readers for political posts. But I wouldn't be opposed to doing one further down the line, particularly if the PD starts to make inroads.
Yes, it was my Roman friend who grew up having the street fights. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
She’s not on sub stack, and I haven’t talked to her since last year when we had a long conversation about Meloni. I’m rarely in touch with her, usually only when I visit Italy.
She was chased out of Rome by gentrification and lives in small town Umbria now. It’s not something I would be comfortable asking her.
But I’m pretty sure you could find some middle aged left-wingers in Rome who know the story. And it wasn’t necessarily Meloni personally, but it was whatever the Fascist youth group that Meloni was a member of when she was growing up.
80s - 90s? That was kind of around the time of the red brigades? There’s a lot of violent political history in Italy. Street fights I don’t think were uncommon.
PS. I edited my first comment for clarity in case someone else is unclear.
I remember thinking she was condescending in that speech, a sad attempt to be memorable but without anything to say. I had no idea it would become so iconic.
I think she's playing a game ... like an extremist in moderate clothing. She'll last longer than Berlusconi did and she's learning how to hold onto power, changing the courts, the rules of her office. Watch out. She's no moderate and she's fooling a lot of people. Promise.
You aren't the only one who thinks this and I hope you're wrong. But there's only one way to find out -- wait and see.
When I spoke to Hooper and Pavoncello and a couple of other analysts for this piece I asked if they thought she was pretending or if there was a real evolution in her. My thought going in -- and the consensus among the experts I interviewed -- is that at least part of it is a legitimate evolution.
I agree with you here, Eric. For some elected leaders of a certain intelligence and pragmatism, being on the inside can reduce so much black-and-while political rhetoric to many shades of gray. It’s notable that she remains staunchly conservative culturally, which will hold many supporters, while becoming more pragmatic politically, and thus more influential. She is indeed a shrewd politician.
I do wonder what she'd do if she was given absolute power -- no need to gain approval from Brussels, no need to work with parliament, or debate issues within her party. I suspect she'd be more extreme. But that isn't a reflection on her as much as it is an argument to protect those institutions.
I was living in Italy when Meloni became prime minister. Most of Italian friends were concerned at best. Some were totally anti. They didn't agree with her policies. Opinions about her when I returned to Australia were almost the opposite, largely very positive. Perhaps she had been positioned well by the Australian media? To be honest, I haven't thought about it much since then, apart from the odd comment, so found this article interesting. It presented me with an opportunity to reflect. Perhaps I'll go back to some of my Italian friends and find how how they feel now.
It’s almost incredible (but probably predictable) that the most reasonable voices on Meloni come from abroad, thank you for your post. I disagree with everything she represents, everything she stands for, the famous Io sono Giorgia speach made me sick, and yet I must say she is a better prime minister than I thought possible (admittedly my bar was very low) and I am less ashamed at being represented by her than I was of Berlusconi, to say a name. And Italy finally has a woman in leadership.
I think u need to have a certain distance from something n order to put it into perspective. Nice comment.
Thank you, Antonia! I think there are a lot of people in Italy the situation you are in of being governed by someone they don't often agree with ... as well as a lot of Americans, Israelis, Russians, Hungarians ....
No offense, man, but does that mean you would have supported some aspects of Mussolini in the 1920s, What about Hitler or Franco? No, I like your writing but I disagree ... when there's a leader like Meloni you have to reject her whole agenda and hope the country survives until she's gone.
Just from the photo and title I’ve got to read this one right away.
Did you read it? Are you a supporter?
Thank you for this excellent analysis of the political situation in Italy. I strongly oppose everything Giorgia Meloni stands for, and I find her party’s right-wing direction deeply troubling and damaging in many areas. That said, I appreciate your nuanced perspective.
It’s true that under her leadership, Italy is being perceived differently on the international stage, and I imagine her path to power hasn’t been easy. While I don’t support her or her politics, I can acknowledge that the stability she currently represents is, in some ways, beneficial for the country.
However, it does seem important to remind everyone that since her rise to power, extreme right events commemorating and celebrating fascist anniversaries have increased amid the general indifference or complacency of the authorities. Seeing crowds do the Roman salute with nobody saying anything - it's a crime in Italy - makes me uncomfortable.
She's not extreme right herself but definitely a new right, that can be just as worrying as well.
I do think she's an extreme right leader forced to operate as a center-right political figure with a more radical cultural agenda (the Roman salute also worries me). But the idea of calling her part of a "new right" is popular, but I don't agree completely. Her way of getting there is different but her politics seem pretty typical for someone with her trajectory. I think Le Pen would be similar if she had Meloni's political skill and the political system in Italy.
In any case, thank you very much for the thoughtful comment! I really enjoy this kind of discussion!
I loved reading this! It’s especially relevant given the ongoing power vacuum in Europe, with traditional actors like Germany and France completely unable to lead, at least on a European level. It’s also important to note that governing for 'three consecutive years' is highly unusual within the context of Italy, where governments and coalitions typically fall apart within 1-2 years.
Oh, and one last thing: my favorite fact from all of this remains her love for Tolkien, which I’m told isn’t uncommon in right-wing circles. :D
In a recent conversation, a contact from left-wing circles in Brussels referred to Meloni as 'not extreme right, just the new right.' I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this.
Lots of thoughts, in any event thank you for writing this!
Also, Sema, regarding Tolkien, there's much, much more on that. Not just Tolkien himself, but The NeverEndingStory, Johnathan Livingston Seagull, and more. It's fascinating. If it's of interest, please read John Hooper's reporting on it (see footnote #2 in my post).
Thanks for the comment, Sema. I have thought a lot about whether she's a kind of 'New Right' but the thing is there's not much that links her to Le Pen or Orban or AfD in Germany or Vox in Spain other than their dislike and mistrust of the establishment. If Meloni is a kind of 'New Right' then she's kind of on her own. I think it's more likely that she's changing the way power is achieved and legitimized than it is that she's changing the political spectrum. But I've been wrong about her before ....
Does anyone else want to weigh in on this?
I live in the USA and was born and raised here but I also have an Italian citizenship. And I do vote in Italy.
Pretty much consistently for the PD.
What about a story on Elly Schlein? The head of the Italian Democratic Party(PD). I heard a great interview with her on the podcast “pod save America,” and she sounded like she had a lot of good ideas. And a lot of thoughtful criticisms of Meloni. About her overall focus, the healthcare system, and wages. How the cost of energy is the way highest in Europe. Etc.
I have a Roman friend who grew up having street fights with the fascist youth group that Meloni was part of that existed in the Garbatella housing projects in Rome.
Certainly Meloni’s actions are less far right than her earlier rhetoric, especially internationally. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t still believe it and is incrementally trying to change Italy to more fit that vision.
Wait. I just realized I may have mis-read what you wrote. Do you mean your Roman friend participated in street fights? That makes more sense. Sorry.
If your friend would be willing, ask her to weigh in here. I'd love to have some commentary from someone with that background.
Based on what I know I like Schlein, though I admit I didn't know she'd been on Pod Save America -- I'm going to find that episode. But I don't think she's ever been in street fights against Fascist groups. Schlein grew up in Emilia-Romagna and I never heard about her being involved in that kind of clash. Schlein is also significantly younger than Meloni -- by the time she was in her 20s Meloni was already in parliament.
I like that Schlein and Meloni seem to treat the other with courtesy and respect. I could even imagine them working together on some side issue. I don't know if it's because they're women working in a world dominated by men (or maybe just that women are more inherently decent than men). But I wish that kind of respectful relationship among rivals was more common.
I quoted Schlein in this post. But I don't think I'll write a post focused on her any time soon -- political analysis is too close to my day job. Plus, I don't think there's all that much interest among readers for political posts. But I wouldn't be opposed to doing one further down the line, particularly if the PD starts to make inroads.
Thanks very much for the thoughtful comment!
And the Schlein interview I mentioned is the last 15 minutes of the most recent episode of “pod save America.”
Yes, it was my Roman friend who grew up having the street fights. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
She’s not on sub stack, and I haven’t talked to her since last year when we had a long conversation about Meloni. I’m rarely in touch with her, usually only when I visit Italy.
She was chased out of Rome by gentrification and lives in small town Umbria now. It’s not something I would be comfortable asking her.
But I’m pretty sure you could find some middle aged left-wingers in Rome who know the story. And it wasn’t necessarily Meloni personally, but it was whatever the Fascist youth group that Meloni was a member of when she was growing up.
80s - 90s? That was kind of around the time of the red brigades? There’s a lot of violent political history in Italy. Street fights I don’t think were uncommon.
PS. I edited my first comment for clarity in case someone else is unclear.
Though I really really didn't like the speech, hats off to her for being 99% inscrutable, as opposed to Berlusconi's 18.6% and Trump's 0.7813%.
I like the precisely calculated percentages!
I remember thinking she was condescending in that speech, a sad attempt to be memorable but without anything to say. I had no idea it would become so iconic.
I think she's playing a game ... like an extremist in moderate clothing. She'll last longer than Berlusconi did and she's learning how to hold onto power, changing the courts, the rules of her office. Watch out. She's no moderate and she's fooling a lot of people. Promise.
You aren't the only one who thinks this and I hope you're wrong. But there's only one way to find out -- wait and see.
When I spoke to Hooper and Pavoncello and a couple of other analysts for this piece I asked if they thought she was pretending or if there was a real evolution in her. My thought going in -- and the consensus among the experts I interviewed -- is that at least part of it is a legitimate evolution.
I agree with you here, Eric. For some elected leaders of a certain intelligence and pragmatism, being on the inside can reduce so much black-and-while political rhetoric to many shades of gray. It’s notable that she remains staunchly conservative culturally, which will hold many supporters, while becoming more pragmatic politically, and thus more influential. She is indeed a shrewd politician.
I do wonder what she'd do if she was given absolute power -- no need to gain approval from Brussels, no need to work with parliament, or debate issues within her party. I suspect she'd be more extreme. But that isn't a reflection on her as much as it is an argument to protect those institutions.
I was living in Italy when Meloni became prime minister. Most of Italian friends were concerned at best. Some were totally anti. They didn't agree with her policies. Opinions about her when I returned to Australia were almost the opposite, largely very positive. Perhaps she had been positioned well by the Australian media? To be honest, I haven't thought about it much since then, apart from the odd comment, so found this article interesting. It presented me with an opportunity to reflect. Perhaps I'll go back to some of my Italian friends and find how how they feel now.
I guess attention spans are short ....
If you get any interesting feedback from your Italian friends please come back and post them here!
Italy's never boring, is it?
That is for sure! There's not doubt that Italy is the most interesting country in Europe.