I think coffee culture started in the Middle East, then went to Europe, then the U.S. I'm not sure Italy played a role in that specifically. But I think Italy came up with the espresso bar culture (taking your coffee at the bar, standing up), though I don't think that has caught on in the U.S. (it doesn't work as well sipping from a big mug ... or more likely, with a big paper cup!)
On a lighter note, I love seeing so many good gelato places in the US.
More seriously, do you really think the U.S. political polarization is an import from Italy? Or is it just an evolution that comes from BIG Money in politics?
I don't think the political polarization came specifically from Italy, but Italy is definitely ahead of the curve on that. I do agree that Citizens United sped things up quite a bit.
Love this article. I will say now that we are slowly adapting the Italian vacation model over here. What used to be 2 weeks for 5 years is now 3 weeks plus 10 flex days for most new jobs that becomes 4 weeks after 5 years. Also, parks are very much respected in urban settings and are very important meeting places for social interaction. While we will never have the passaggiata, more time is being spent on social activities post Covid. See you soon I hope!
I hadn't even thought about the impact of Covid! Great point.
I've noticed that American friends have more vacation time these days but I assumed it was because they -- not either one of us, obviously -- are getting older and more senior in their positions. But it sounds like that's even true for entry-level posts. If so, I'm very glad to hear it.
I don't know where it started, but one distressing thing I find here and in the U.S. is now many people go through their day just starring at their phones! I went for a walk around a lake when I was visiting my mom and half the people were walking and looking at their phones. Same thing in Rome.
Fantastic piece Eric! As the spouse of a 2nd generation Italian American from Staten Island I can say that Garibaldi still looms large for many Italian Americans. Very interesting to learn more about his history.
I had no idea Garibaldi was still well known on Staten Island. That's very interesting! I've spent significant time in New York City over the years, but I think I've only been to Staten Island once -- and even then it was just the ferry terminal. Thanks for that insight!
That is very cool!! I went to h. school in Philadelphia and they talked about Garibaldi in European history class and I felt v. proud! But they didn't mention that he lived in NY or all the S. America stuff. (p.s. I'm an Italian)
I used to be an Italian in America and now I feel like an American in Italy.
I feel proud that Garibaldi was an abolitionist at a time when it wasn't easy. I didn't realize there was so much exchange between my favorite countries.
I think more and more people feel split between two worlds. I'd say the same thing. Garibaldi wasn't one of them, though. I think he always felt staunchly Italian (even though Italy didn't officially exist until he was in his 50s!)
Thanks for this fascinating slice of cross-cultural history. I only had a vague idea of who Garibaldi was and had no idea he had such a presence in American history.
I love a good counter-factual. Another excellent article where I learned something interesting about Italy, and thought, I should really see if Eric is up for a coffee sometime when I’m in Italy.
I've always thought the same thing! I read a biography of Garibaldi 15 or so years ago and I kept thinking, when does this guy sleep? And keep in mind that he failed as often as he succeeded!
Meanwhile, I'm over here feeling overwhelmed because I decided to launch a Substack newsletter in addition to my normal job ...
Having for many years 'collected' statues of Garibaldi across Italy in photographs (rich towns have horses, poorer ones don't) it would indeed be a difficult task to accept a Garibaldi statue of the man on horseback on Times Square, or indeed in the deep South somewhere. Maybe Savannah. In a square, surrounded by cast iron balconies and colonial homes... come to think of it, it could work. The beard, the little hat. Quaint. shabby-chic. Yeah, it would. Mint-julep? Mr. Garibaldi??
I never thought about the costs of having a horse added to a statue but it makes perfect sense!
There is a Garibaldi statue in Washington Square Park in New York. I've seen it and photographed it, but I couldn't find the photo. He's not on horseback, but he is drawing a sword.
Thankfully, the slow food movement so important to the food culture of Italy has been imported to America. Alice Waters expounded on it, evident in her restaurant Chez Panisse and her cookbooks. Now local farmers bring their fresh produce and meats to farmers’ markets in many communities. With these markets, Americans can eat what is in season and farmed within an hour of the market. It’s sad that processed foods are more prevalent in Italy, but I recently read it’s only 20% of their food. Sadly in America it’s closer to 80%. Because Italians have a reverence for food, they are healthier; I hope that doesn’t change.
I don't know. It seems almost inevitable to me, sadly. It's true that in general one eats much better in Italy, but the changes I've seen since I've lived here are dramatic. And as people work longer hours and food companies are under pressure to cut corners and increase profits and younger generations grow up on junk food ... it seems like an unhealthy combination of influences, even in a food lover's paradise like Italy. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong.
FYI, Rose: merendine refers to all the sweet, packaged pastries kids here eat, sort of like Italian Twinkies. I haven't had Twinkies since I was a kid and I don't think I've ever eaten the Italian ones, so I can't tell you which ones are more off-putting.
Really fascinating take on cultural filters breaking down over time. The Garibaldi-Lincoln counterfactual is compelling, especially the point about how it might have reframed Italian immigration as linked to emancipation rather than stereotypes about crime. I noticed the same thing about American-style precar employment creeping into Italy when I visited last year, lots of talk about gig ecnomy stuff that felt totally out of place there. The part about each country absorbing the other's worst traits while filtering out the best is painfully accurate.
I realized after visiting Sicily a few years ago that a lot of aesthetics and design that I came to associate as "Italian," especially growing up around middle class Italian/Catholics, is actually quite Sicilian. This makes sense given that a lot of kids my age/families were second generation of the mass of early 20th century immigrants from there. I found it all very recognizable! Now, spending most of my time in N. Italy, I don't really see the connection at all.
Unrelatedly, Garibaldi was born in Nice, in a building in the Port. There's a plaque. He's also got a big Place and statue (unmounted). He's really a model for irredentists everywhere.
I knew Garibaldi was born in Nice. I didn't know there was a plaque and statue of him there but I guess it's no surprise. I wonder if there's anything to read into the fact that he's unmounted in the statue.
Of course, Nice was part of France when Garibaldi was born but was conquered by the Kingdom of Sardinia when he was a small kid. What's cool to think about is that this guy nominally born in France and a hero of Italy was a native speaker of Ligurian who learned French and Italian afterwards. I've heard Ligurian spoken a few times ... it's not easy to understand.
Ligurian def is hard for Italian speakers and it is still pretty common even in villages that are close to the coast, among people who aren't very old. Not enough of a linguist to know how close it is to Nissart. Need a good book on Garibaldi. You should write one!
Can you give us an example? I always thought Italian aesthetics (art, architecture, furniture) had their roots in Rome and Naples and that they were imported (sometimes badly) to places like Milan, Turin, Verona, etc. But this topic is far from my areas of expertise ... if you have insights to share I'd be thrilled!
No particular expertise! Just an aha moment. To be clear, I'm not talking about the high design. I'm talking about the low/mid garish, oversaturated baroque kitsch. If only it was the former.
I didn't even think of that! So much stuff is coming over. Microwavable meals? Starbucks cold brew coffee in the supermarket? American cheese? Campbell's soup? Really??
I’m curious what readers on either side of the Atlantic have noticed firsthand about the cultural exchange between Italy and the U.S.
Where do you think the U.S. got Italy right or wrong? And where has Italy subtly changed American life? I’m happy to be corrected or challenged here.
I thought I knew U.S. history but I didn't realize what a big role Garibaldi had!
I'm curious about coffee culture. Which side of the Atlantic started it?
I think coffee culture started in the Middle East, then went to Europe, then the U.S. I'm not sure Italy played a role in that specifically. But I think Italy came up with the espresso bar culture (taking your coffee at the bar, standing up), though I don't think that has caught on in the U.S. (it doesn't work as well sipping from a big mug ... or more likely, with a big paper cup!)
On a lighter note, I love seeing so many good gelato places in the US.
More seriously, do you really think the U.S. political polarization is an import from Italy? Or is it just an evolution that comes from BIG Money in politics?
I don't think the political polarization came specifically from Italy, but Italy is definitely ahead of the curve on that. I do agree that Citizens United sped things up quite a bit.
Love this article. I will say now that we are slowly adapting the Italian vacation model over here. What used to be 2 weeks for 5 years is now 3 weeks plus 10 flex days for most new jobs that becomes 4 weeks after 5 years. Also, parks are very much respected in urban settings and are very important meeting places for social interaction. While we will never have the passaggiata, more time is being spent on social activities post Covid. See you soon I hope!
I hadn't even thought about the impact of Covid! Great point.
I've noticed that American friends have more vacation time these days but I assumed it was because they -- not either one of us, obviously -- are getting older and more senior in their positions. But it sounds like that's even true for entry-level posts. If so, I'm very glad to hear it.
I don't know where it started, but one distressing thing I find here and in the U.S. is now many people go through their day just starring at their phones! I went for a walk around a lake when I was visiting my mom and half the people were walking and looking at their phones. Same thing in Rome.
Fantastic piece Eric! As the spouse of a 2nd generation Italian American from Staten Island I can say that Garibaldi still looms large for many Italian Americans. Very interesting to learn more about his history.
I had no idea Garibaldi was still well known on Staten Island. That's very interesting! I've spent significant time in New York City over the years, but I think I've only been to Staten Island once -- and even then it was just the ferry terminal. Thanks for that insight!
That is very cool!! I went to h. school in Philadelphia and they talked about Garibaldi in European history class and I felt v. proud! But they didn't mention that he lived in NY or all the S. America stuff. (p.s. I'm an Italian)
I used to be an Italian in America and now I feel like an American in Italy.
I feel proud that Garibaldi was an abolitionist at a time when it wasn't easy. I didn't realize there was so much exchange between my favorite countries.
I think more and more people feel split between two worlds. I'd say the same thing. Garibaldi wasn't one of them, though. I think he always felt staunchly Italian (even though Italy didn't officially exist until he was in his 50s!)
Thanks for this fascinating slice of cross-cultural history. I only had a vague idea of who Garibaldi was and had no idea he had such a presence in American history.
I think it was the same for me before I moved to Italy. He's such a fascinating character that I can't believe he isn't better known outside Italy!
Same!
I love a good counter-factual. Another excellent article where I learned something interesting about Italy, and thought, I should really see if Eric is up for a coffee sometime when I’m in Italy.
Just FYI: I'm always on the lookout for excuses to take another coffee break!
Wow. Lots of "food for thought" and some "what-if's"
I love historical "what-if" questions!
I try to think less about the ones in my personal life, though, since thinking too much about them can make decision-making more challenging.
Wow, first time an article of yours sounds like fiction! I still don't understand how Garibaldi managed to do it all.
I've always thought the same thing! I read a biography of Garibaldi 15 or so years ago and I kept thinking, when does this guy sleep? And keep in mind that he failed as often as he succeeded!
Meanwhile, I'm over here feeling overwhelmed because I decided to launch a Substack newsletter in addition to my normal job ...
Having for many years 'collected' statues of Garibaldi across Italy in photographs (rich towns have horses, poorer ones don't) it would indeed be a difficult task to accept a Garibaldi statue of the man on horseback on Times Square, or indeed in the deep South somewhere. Maybe Savannah. In a square, surrounded by cast iron balconies and colonial homes... come to think of it, it could work. The beard, the little hat. Quaint. shabby-chic. Yeah, it would. Mint-julep? Mr. Garibaldi??
Lovely! Great one. Thank you Eric!
I never thought about the costs of having a horse added to a statue but it makes perfect sense!
There is a Garibaldi statue in Washington Square Park in New York. I've seen it and photographed it, but I couldn't find the photo. He's not on horseback, but he is drawing a sword.
Thankfully, the slow food movement so important to the food culture of Italy has been imported to America. Alice Waters expounded on it, evident in her restaurant Chez Panisse and her cookbooks. Now local farmers bring their fresh produce and meats to farmers’ markets in many communities. With these markets, Americans can eat what is in season and farmed within an hour of the market. It’s sad that processed foods are more prevalent in Italy, but I recently read it’s only 20% of their food. Sadly in America it’s closer to 80%. Because Italians have a reverence for food, they are healthier; I hope that doesn’t change.
I don't know. It seems almost inevitable to me, sadly. It's true that in general one eats much better in Italy, but the changes I've seen since I've lived here are dramatic. And as people work longer hours and food companies are under pressure to cut corners and increase profits and younger generations grow up on junk food ... it seems like an unhealthy combination of influences, even in a food lover's paradise like Italy. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong.
Yeah, all you have to do is look at merendine. They didn't exist pre-80s and now they're almost as Italian as pasta. Terrible.
FYI, Rose: merendine refers to all the sweet, packaged pastries kids here eat, sort of like Italian Twinkies. I haven't had Twinkies since I was a kid and I don't think I've ever eaten the Italian ones, so I can't tell you which ones are more off-putting.
Thanks for letting me know what meredine are. I was never a Twinkies fan—not a healthy snack.
Is that common knowledge? Sorry, I didn’t know until I moved here.
You didn’t even like Twinkies as a kid?
I love both. But still...
I'm purposely and confidently NOT liking this comment.
Really fascinating take on cultural filters breaking down over time. The Garibaldi-Lincoln counterfactual is compelling, especially the point about how it might have reframed Italian immigration as linked to emancipation rather than stereotypes about crime. I noticed the same thing about American-style precar employment creeping into Italy when I visited last year, lots of talk about gig ecnomy stuff that felt totally out of place there. The part about each country absorbing the other's worst traits while filtering out the best is painfully accurate.
Thank you for the fast, clear, concise, and comprehensive synthesis!
I realized after visiting Sicily a few years ago that a lot of aesthetics and design that I came to associate as "Italian," especially growing up around middle class Italian/Catholics, is actually quite Sicilian. This makes sense given that a lot of kids my age/families were second generation of the mass of early 20th century immigrants from there. I found it all very recognizable! Now, spending most of my time in N. Italy, I don't really see the connection at all.
Unrelatedly, Garibaldi was born in Nice, in a building in the Port. There's a plaque. He's also got a big Place and statue (unmounted). He's really a model for irredentists everywhere.
I knew Garibaldi was born in Nice. I didn't know there was a plaque and statue of him there but I guess it's no surprise. I wonder if there's anything to read into the fact that he's unmounted in the statue.
Of course, Nice was part of France when Garibaldi was born but was conquered by the Kingdom of Sardinia when he was a small kid. What's cool to think about is that this guy nominally born in France and a hero of Italy was a native speaker of Ligurian who learned French and Italian afterwards. I've heard Ligurian spoken a few times ... it's not easy to understand.
Ligurian def is hard for Italian speakers and it is still pretty common even in villages that are close to the coast, among people who aren't very old. Not enough of a linguist to know how close it is to Nissart. Need a good book on Garibaldi. You should write one!
Can you give us an example? I always thought Italian aesthetics (art, architecture, furniture) had their roots in Rome and Naples and that they were imported (sometimes badly) to places like Milan, Turin, Verona, etc. But this topic is far from my areas of expertise ... if you have insights to share I'd be thrilled!
No particular expertise! Just an aha moment. To be clear, I'm not talking about the high design. I'm talking about the low/mid garish, oversaturated baroque kitsch. If only it was the former.
And now the protein craze has hit Italy. Lol. Great post.
I didn't even think of that! So much stuff is coming over. Microwavable meals? Starbucks cold brew coffee in the supermarket? American cheese? Campbell's soup? Really??
I wish america would import not for profit healthcare
Yes, amen! And some sensible gun laws.