The hyperbole of the positive reviews doesn't bother me that much. But the negative ones are incredible! Are you sure they weren't written ironically? The one who didn't know the grand canal was (wait for it) a canal or the one who didn't know the Colosseum was old? Is anyone really THAT stupid?
There's no way to know for sure. But there were plenty of comically bad reviews and so I did check out everyone's profile before choosing that particular one. If they were meant to be ironic, those were one-off ironic remarks. Almost all of them had other reviews that seemed at least semi-thoughtful and well-intentioned. I might have linked to one or two tongue-in-cheek reviews, but I think all or most of these folks were seriously trying to help others avoid the same "mistake" they made.
I believe there are people so ignorant as to make comments like that. My husband and I were in Venice and overheard a lady, lugging a heavy suitcase up and over canal bridges, remarking to her husband that she was surprised that there were no cars there so that she could get a taxi to her hotel.
THE dumbest comment I've ever heard a tour guide relay to me was one time when touring the Colosseum, the group met at the Colosseo Metro stop. An Aussie commented how intelligent the Ancient Romans were for building the Colosseum next to a subway.
Uh, people, pretty much all of them were ironic. Not particularly erudite or witty irony, but irony nonetheless. It's a bit of a "trend" that's taken off in recent years, to "use" review real estate for jokes, at the expense of actual users. Very unhelpful, I agree, but c'est la vie.
I thought that as well, but I'm not so sure it's true. I did come across some that were clearly meant as a joke, but I didn't include them.
Click on the links. The "past its prime" guy's review also complains about more legit topics: ticket prices, which he called a scam, time in line, etc. The "eyesore" person said the site was dirty, dangerous. The "big pile of rocks" review was actually mostly positive, though that was the title she chose. The Uffizi reviews seem legit. The only one I suspect might have been a stab at humor is the one who complained the Grand Canal was under water. But the reviewer has plenty of serious reviews ... and the comment was too good to pass up.
Still, regardless, all of them are still treated as serious and are all small parts of the mosaic of opinions that make up the local zeitgeist. Either way, they're part of the problem. Stupid reviews, ironic reviews, rage reviews, uninformed reviews, reviews written to gain favor ... they all water down the handful of thoughtful, informed reviews and make the whole system less worthwhile.
In June 2024, I went to Rome to meet a friend. It was dreadfully hot plus hundreds of tourists poorly dressed and loud. I went to Firenze this past December and was dismayed to see the centre full of big luxury brands and tourists galore. Personally, I prefer the smaller cities to practice my Italian and eat delicious local food. This September it is Parma and Pontremoli ...
Oh, I remember the June 2024 -- Rome was an oven! I only have air conditioning in one room of the house and I just spent the bulk of each day inside in that single room.
There's no doubt Italy gets more tourists every year and that the cultural level of the average tourist is in decline. But it's still reasonably easy to get away from it all.
I'm with you on the small towns, at least for down time. But I like the cultural richness of the city as well.
I'd never heard of Pontremoli! But I just looked it up and it seems lovely.
My brother and girlfriend like to rent an airbnb in a hamlet just outside Pontremoli. Let me tell you, it is like going back in time. No tourists….everyone speaks in Italian. The food was some of the best food I have ever had in Italy. So much better than what I ate in Flroence..and cheap! one morning we had 5 cappucinno and it was 7 euros…Dinner for 4 would be under 100 euros with wine, dessert etc. It was the crossroads of the Romans hence the good food. It is in the northern part of Tuscany…about 40 min drive north of La Spezia…I will definitely go back next year..Love that area…I am taking Italian intensive classes in Bologna this Septmeber so excited to discover Bologna!
Well, now you've done it! There goes the neighbourhood. Your diamond in the rough will soon have tour buses pulling up. Now you're going to have to find another village.
If only The Italian Dispatch comment section wielded that kind of influence!
Hahah. I know you were joking, but I've thought about this kind of thing for many years. Should a journalist call attention to something that up to then was unspoiled. I have usually erred on the side of under-revealing.
Again, it's not a big factor, but I've taken that view with the "Favorite of the Italian Dispatch stickers" I give out. So far, around 45 of them are on display around Italy in restaurants, coffee bars, wine shops, wineries, etc. that I find to be authentic and worthwhile. I don't intend to ever publish a list of them ... the intention is that when a reader comes across one in the wild (something that has only happened twice that I'm aware of) it's an assurance they picked a good spot.
Yes, I can imagine it is a challenge to decide what to recommend, or how much detail to provide. When we travel I do like to post reviews, but generally it might be to provide a tip as to easier access or something to maybe avoid depending on one's tastes. Some places, particularly notable restaurants, don't need my two cents worth. I get value from recommendations from others about particular dishes, or exceptional service, or a warm and welcoming environment. General comments like "best gelato in Florence" aren't helpful, but if I see "the Titian in this location is often missed" I'm all over that. But as you suggest, the best finds in Italy are those made while just wandering around, maybe even while lost!
Sto studiando l'Italiano e parlo molto poco...I saw the same thing happen in Tulum....It was a really cool hippy dippy paradise on the Caribbean coast until the NY TIMES article came out on Tulum. Then that was that...gone.
A friend took a visiting acquaintance to lunch in Bracciano, in the shadow of the castle. The friend had strong opinions about the food (“Oh, it’s all Italian, is it?” and felt that the town in general would greatly benefit from a general spruce-up, and thought that not turning the castle into a mall was a missed opportunity.
On the other hand, I did once have to haul my (then small) daughter around London, home of a thousand cuisines, while she wailed “But I just want a plate of pasta!” at the top of her lungs.
Two thumbs up for your daughter! Haha. That's pretty funny.
Years ago, when Tom Cruise got married in Bracciano, I was hired by a gossip magazine to go there and write about it and several people in the visiting press corps commented about the need to clean the place up and get some modern-looking buildings in there. But I never heard anyone suggest turning the castle into a mall. I hope that person is happy wherever they are -- as long as it isn't here!
I know you don't go around town with Nitro as often as I do with Mocha, but having a dog helps keep the menu wavers at bay. A lot of them come from places where people are scared of dogs (even a small one, like Mocha). But I also think having a dog makes you look local, and local people don't get cajoled into a restaurant by a roving waiter.
Love this honesty about what Italy has to deal with. Ouch. I do my best to be kind in my judgement of the ill-informed...I am sure I am still laughingly dense about other cultures. But what strikes me as awkward is how "certain" some of these comments and "reviews" sound, in that way that might call for a little more humility in a foreign place. My favourite story of this genre is one from a wonderful tour guide. While touring Florence with a young American (20 something) tourist, he asked, "Can you show us where Michelangelo and David lived?" 🥸
What? You mean Michelangelo and David weren't roomies??
I remember hearing somewhere that some tourists thought Firenze and Florence were two different places.
My favorite dub tourist comment of all times isn't from Italy and so it didn't make it into this essay. But when I lived in Peru I had a visitor who after a few days told me that that Spanish Empire had an unfair advantage in conquering South America because they already spoke the language!
Anyway, I agree with you about the "certainty" of stupid reviews. Do you know what the Dunning-Kruger Effect is? Basically, it's a bias that states that some people of low ability in an area lack the capacity to know they have low ability. Seems like it's becoming more common.
I confess that I was happy to see that even European tourists acted like American clods away from home. I was a tad less embarrassed. But a second thought galloped behind that short rest from embarrassment. Maybe that means that the American brand of clod is as easily infectious as, say, the 1950’s version of “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” You know, the one starring Kevin McCarthy and Dana Wynter. Yeah. That one.
Hi Carol … I admit I had a similar thought. But for what it’s worth, I know there was an uninformed strata of visitors to Italy even before the U.S. existed. I’m working on a story (not for the newsletter, though I may discuss it here as well) based on old guide books. I have a collection that dates to the 16th century and they include warnings like you can’t just steal Italian children and you aren’t allowed to take antiquities with you when you leave.
Some of our compatriots help to carry the tradition forward, but, fortunately, they didn’t invent it!
I’m surprised and delighted at receiving your response. You’ve added to my education, so thank you. The examples you offer, however, aren’t colorist, they’re alarming. Imagine advising a tourist visiting a foreign country that you may not steal their children. Progress! We must advise. Putin that stealing and keeping Ukrainian children is verboten.
Haha. Fortunately, it isn’t just Americans (though plenty of the worst are from the U S of A). This kind of tourism also predates the U.S. See the earlier comment from Carol Clark for more on that.
I think the elite -- billionaires, political figures, secret power brokers, etc. -- are still the elite. But influencers may be replacing journalists and writers and professors as the new cultural bourgeoisie.
OH PLEASE.... Make all the tourists find someplace else to trample and inundate with their opinions and boorish behaviors!
I have wished for almost 30 years that they will stay away from my beloved Tuscany!
Hahah. You could read your comment in a way that makes it sound like a prayer. Or maybe it is a prayer!
P.S. "Boorish" is a good word you don't hear too often.
Whether a prayer or not.... it IS a wish, Eric! And isn't "boorish" the perfect word when applied to certain tourist behavior?
Yes, agreed!
I hope the modern traveler won't help the word make a comeback.
Perfect word
Crank up the tourist - fees to pay for all the clean - tourists taxes are €12 . Disneyland is €150
The hyperbole of the positive reviews doesn't bother me that much. But the negative ones are incredible! Are you sure they weren't written ironically? The one who didn't know the grand canal was (wait for it) a canal or the one who didn't know the Colosseum was old? Is anyone really THAT stupid?
There's no way to know for sure. But there were plenty of comically bad reviews and so I did check out everyone's profile before choosing that particular one. If they were meant to be ironic, those were one-off ironic remarks. Almost all of them had other reviews that seemed at least semi-thoughtful and well-intentioned. I might have linked to one or two tongue-in-cheek reviews, but I think all or most of these folks were seriously trying to help others avoid the same "mistake" they made.
There's no accounting for taste, I guess. Or to quote that great philosopher Forest Gump... stupid is as stupid does.
I believe there are people so ignorant as to make comments like that. My husband and I were in Venice and overheard a lady, lugging a heavy suitcase up and over canal bridges, remarking to her husband that she was surprised that there were no cars there so that she could get a taxi to her hotel.
Our species is probably in decline
"A big hole near the Colosseum where all the rocks are kept ..." Lord. How do these people survive?
I'm glad you said that pizza looked delicious because it does. Now I'm hungry.
That's my same point! Wouldn't they mistakenly walk into traffic or try to eat their fork or something?
Some of the reviews I found are pretty bad. But they're hardly on the cutting edge of stupid stuff happening in the world.
I think some might be been half joking
I adore those terribly good reviews... maybe it will keep people from coming and taking up valuable space. Bless the ignorant, long may they rule!
Bless the ignorant indeed! They need all the help they can get!
Yup, him too! 😉
THE dumbest comment I've ever heard a tour guide relay to me was one time when touring the Colosseum, the group met at the Colosseo Metro stop. An Aussie commented how intelligent the Ancient Romans were for building the Colosseum next to a subway.
That one just about takes the cake! Some people ...
Uh, people, pretty much all of them were ironic. Not particularly erudite or witty irony, but irony nonetheless. It's a bit of a "trend" that's taken off in recent years, to "use" review real estate for jokes, at the expense of actual users. Very unhelpful, I agree, but c'est la vie.
I thought that as well, but I'm not so sure it's true. I did come across some that were clearly meant as a joke, but I didn't include them.
Click on the links. The "past its prime" guy's review also complains about more legit topics: ticket prices, which he called a scam, time in line, etc. The "eyesore" person said the site was dirty, dangerous. The "big pile of rocks" review was actually mostly positive, though that was the title she chose. The Uffizi reviews seem legit. The only one I suspect might have been a stab at humor is the one who complained the Grand Canal was under water. But the reviewer has plenty of serious reviews ... and the comment was too good to pass up.
Still, regardless, all of them are still treated as serious and are all small parts of the mosaic of opinions that make up the local zeitgeist. Either way, they're part of the problem. Stupid reviews, ironic reviews, rage reviews, uninformed reviews, reviews written to gain favor ... they all water down the handful of thoughtful, informed reviews and make the whole system less worthwhile.
In June 2024, I went to Rome to meet a friend. It was dreadfully hot plus hundreds of tourists poorly dressed and loud. I went to Firenze this past December and was dismayed to see the centre full of big luxury brands and tourists galore. Personally, I prefer the smaller cities to practice my Italian and eat delicious local food. This September it is Parma and Pontremoli ...
Really, most tourists would be bored in Pontremoli....not much to see or do...and the food sucks!! haha
Ah, I see. We'll then, enjoy your penance ;-) .
Oh, I remember the June 2024 -- Rome was an oven! I only have air conditioning in one room of the house and I just spent the bulk of each day inside in that single room.
There's no doubt Italy gets more tourists every year and that the cultural level of the average tourist is in decline. But it's still reasonably easy to get away from it all.
I'm with you on the small towns, at least for down time. But I like the cultural richness of the city as well.
I'd never heard of Pontremoli! But I just looked it up and it seems lovely.
My brother and girlfriend like to rent an airbnb in a hamlet just outside Pontremoli. Let me tell you, it is like going back in time. No tourists….everyone speaks in Italian. The food was some of the best food I have ever had in Italy. So much better than what I ate in Flroence..and cheap! one morning we had 5 cappucinno and it was 7 euros…Dinner for 4 would be under 100 euros with wine, dessert etc. It was the crossroads of the Romans hence the good food. It is in the northern part of Tuscany…about 40 min drive north of La Spezia…I will definitely go back next year..Love that area…I am taking Italian intensive classes in Bologna this Septmeber so excited to discover Bologna!
Well, now you've done it! There goes the neighbourhood. Your diamond in the rough will soon have tour buses pulling up. Now you're going to have to find another village.
If only The Italian Dispatch comment section wielded that kind of influence!
Hahah. I know you were joking, but I've thought about this kind of thing for many years. Should a journalist call attention to something that up to then was unspoiled. I have usually erred on the side of under-revealing.
Again, it's not a big factor, but I've taken that view with the "Favorite of the Italian Dispatch stickers" I give out. So far, around 45 of them are on display around Italy in restaurants, coffee bars, wine shops, wineries, etc. that I find to be authentic and worthwhile. I don't intend to ever publish a list of them ... the intention is that when a reader comes across one in the wild (something that has only happened twice that I'm aware of) it's an assurance they picked a good spot.
Yes, I can imagine it is a challenge to decide what to recommend, or how much detail to provide. When we travel I do like to post reviews, but generally it might be to provide a tip as to easier access or something to maybe avoid depending on one's tastes. Some places, particularly notable restaurants, don't need my two cents worth. I get value from recommendations from others about particular dishes, or exceptional service, or a warm and welcoming environment. General comments like "best gelato in Florence" aren't helpful, but if I see "the Titian in this location is often missed" I'm all over that. But as you suggest, the best finds in Italy are those made while just wandering around, maybe even while lost!
Really, most tourists would be bored in Pontremoli....not much to see nor do...and the food sucks!! haha
They need to give you a job at city hall!
Sto studiando l'Italiano e parlo molto poco...I saw the same thing happen in Tulum....It was a really cool hippy dippy paradise on the Caribbean coast until the NY TIMES article came out on Tulum. Then that was that...gone.
A friend took a visiting acquaintance to lunch in Bracciano, in the shadow of the castle. The friend had strong opinions about the food (“Oh, it’s all Italian, is it?” and felt that the town in general would greatly benefit from a general spruce-up, and thought that not turning the castle into a mall was a missed opportunity.
On the other hand, I did once have to haul my (then small) daughter around London, home of a thousand cuisines, while she wailed “But I just want a plate of pasta!” at the top of her lungs.
Two thumbs up for your daughter! Haha. That's pretty funny.
Years ago, when Tom Cruise got married in Bracciano, I was hired by a gossip magazine to go there and write about it and several people in the visiting press corps commented about the need to clean the place up and get some modern-looking buildings in there. But I never heard anyone suggest turning the castle into a mall. I hope that person is happy wherever they are -- as long as it isn't here!
Love "hadn't been used in years", Always avoid the menu wavers!
I know you don't go around town with Nitro as often as I do with Mocha, but having a dog helps keep the menu wavers at bay. A lot of them come from places where people are scared of dogs (even a small one, like Mocha). But I also think having a dog makes you look local, and local people don't get cajoled into a restaurant by a roving waiter.
Love this honesty about what Italy has to deal with. Ouch. I do my best to be kind in my judgement of the ill-informed...I am sure I am still laughingly dense about other cultures. But what strikes me as awkward is how "certain" some of these comments and "reviews" sound, in that way that might call for a little more humility in a foreign place. My favourite story of this genre is one from a wonderful tour guide. While touring Florence with a young American (20 something) tourist, he asked, "Can you show us where Michelangelo and David lived?" 🥸
What? You mean Michelangelo and David weren't roomies??
I remember hearing somewhere that some tourists thought Firenze and Florence were two different places.
My favorite dub tourist comment of all times isn't from Italy and so it didn't make it into this essay. But when I lived in Peru I had a visitor who after a few days told me that that Spanish Empire had an unfair advantage in conquering South America because they already spoke the language!
Anyway, I agree with you about the "certainty" of stupid reviews. Do you know what the Dunning-Kruger Effect is? Basically, it's a bias that states that some people of low ability in an area lack the capacity to know they have low ability. Seems like it's becoming more common.
I guess you can suffer from Dunning-Kruger and still become president.
I confess that I was happy to see that even European tourists acted like American clods away from home. I was a tad less embarrassed. But a second thought galloped behind that short rest from embarrassment. Maybe that means that the American brand of clod is as easily infectious as, say, the 1950’s version of “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” You know, the one starring Kevin McCarthy and Dana Wynter. Yeah. That one.
Hi Carol … I admit I had a similar thought. But for what it’s worth, I know there was an uninformed strata of visitors to Italy even before the U.S. existed. I’m working on a story (not for the newsletter, though I may discuss it here as well) based on old guide books. I have a collection that dates to the 16th century and they include warnings like you can’t just steal Italian children and you aren’t allowed to take antiquities with you when you leave.
Some of our compatriots help to carry the tradition forward, but, fortunately, they didn’t invent it!
I’m surprised and delighted at receiving your response. You’ve added to my education, so thank you. The examples you offer, however, aren’t colorist, they’re alarming. Imagine advising a tourist visiting a foreign country that you may not steal their children. Progress! We must advise. Putin that stealing and keeping Ukrainian children is verboten.
Thanks, Eric, for the laughs your piece offered.
Why did those ignorant people ever leave their home country? They make “ugly American” more true than ever. Leave my beloved Italy alone!
Haha. Fortunately, it isn’t just Americans (though plenty of the worst are from the U S of A). This kind of tourism also predates the U.S. See the earlier comment from Carol Clark for more on that.
Livia’s response is pure gold!! 😅👏
Haha. I’ll let her know you liked it!
I like the advice about the good bad reviews. I never thought of that.
Thanks! I learned through buying wines that it's worth looking beyond the rating score.
Online reviewers and influencers ... the new elite
I think the elite -- billionaires, political figures, secret power brokers, etc. -- are still the elite. But influencers may be replacing journalists and writers and professors as the new cultural bourgeoisie.
Another insightful bit of guidance from Eric