The meatballs! I hope my brain can forget that part of the story.
Other than that you named a bunch of my husband’s favorite foods. Ossobucco has special memories for us. A favorite friend of ours, Tom, used to make it for us and it was DELICIOUS. I usually don’t eat veal so he would make mine with lamb; but anyway, ossobucco is difficult to find on a menu in most of the US. Most restaurants here in central Florida make it with pork when we can find it. It’s not the same as our friend’s from scratch, but still good. Tom’s ossobucco also was made con cariño as my husband would say, which can’t be substituted.
Tiramisù is another that my husband asks for that was mentioned in your article. He’s just fine with the one from the Publix bakery. Lol.
Italy truly has the best food in the world in my opinion. Even vegetables, I always say no one makes vegetables as delicious as the Italians. Roasted veggies, marinated or drizzled with balsamic, escarole pie, eggplant…
I hear you on the meatballs! I love 'em here: in bianco (lemon sauce), al sugo (as in the photo). When the reader told me that old story a few months back I told her she was breaking my heart. But I've been reassured enough times that that was something from another era that I'm back to ordering them!
Thanks for the shout out and for many new insights, Eric. I especially like the art of arrangiarsi—something I have not ever been able to explain to outsiders. It’s a nice complement to the bella figura concept and to tranquilla (I usually hear the feminine form), as you explain it. One need be flessibile, non, to survive in Italy?
Yes! I have a vague idea of a future post on how to recognize the new arrivals who'll probably manage to carve out a life here and those who won't make it and one of the central ideas I have is that if people are too rigid, they won't make it. It would be like someone's immune system rejecting an incompatible organ transplant.
Hey Eric, I say this with all the love in my heart - the questura guy knew you weren’t Italian because you mixed your grammar “lei sei pronto” is using both the formal and informal together. And usually when you enter a room or a house, you say “permesso”. I hope this helps! 😍
Besides, it was no secret I was a non-Italian ... everyone in line was, by definition. I think he was definitely mad about not being able to finish reading the paper (plus, if I remember correctly, both AS Roma and Lazio lost that weekend ... I could look that up to be sure).
Of course, I don't have that Questura experience recorded and I didn't take notes at the time. So I was trying to recreate the scene based on what seems like pretty vivid memories of it. I included the grammatical error on purpose to illustrate to those who'd notice (you're the first to mention it) that at that time I was a foreigner who'd only been in Italy a few months. I was undecided between "Lei sei pronto?" and "Lei pronto?" and I chose the first because it seemed more like what I'd say.
In this part of the story, I hadn't actually walked into his office yet. But even when I did, I wouldn't have said "permesso." Isn't that right? Someone's home, yes, or a more personal space. But an office where there are dozens of people in line? Would you say "permesso" in that circumstance?
Always a pleasure to read you, Eric! I'm a wellspring of stories... so never to hesitate to ask for more of them. And thanks for setting the record straight on cappuccino after noon. That is not and has never been a rule, and they can very cozy mid-afternoon on a winter day. After dinner is just heavy and bizarre for a population obsessed with digestion.... but no one will stop you!
My problem is a lack of time to write more than a shortage of ideas. But I still love talking about this kind of thing so I’ll take you up on the offer!
Re the surname, one of those threads suggests there *might* be a link: you'd describe something μακρό or μακρή as long or tall etc. - > "great, high" reference to Gods -> "exalted, blessed".
Looks like a long shot to me. But well, μακάρι ;-)
Anita, I did a quick search in Italian and this came up. It’s from μακάριος (macarios, for those who can’t read Greek) which apparently means “beato / felice” happy / blessed.
When I lived in Rome in the late 80s/early 90s, we had to pay all of our household bollette (bills) at the post office. Every month. Now, those were some lines!
That was before my time, but I do remember not being able to pay online -- you'd have to go to a bank or a tobbacaio. I asked once people then why we couldn't just mail a check (we did that ten in Peru, where I lived before moving to Italy) and people said "then we'd miss the human contact!" What human contact? The clerk almost always acted like he/she didn't want to be there!
I don't know if it's still true. But it used to be true that La Gazzetta dell Sport was the most widely distributed newspaper in Italy on Mondays. The other six days, it's Corriere della Sera.
interesting.... I pity you the long lines at the ufficio stranieri... I learned back in the early 70s if my future father in law in his high officer's uniform came with me, it was all so easy
I bet that would help! That's another rule: it's not what you know it's who you know!
I still have to renew my permesso every two years, but it's much easier now since they have a special process for credentialed journalists. But for most non-Europeans who want to be here legally, it's a real pain.
Im hoping Vatican and UK journalists pick up the story of the 1512 monument in Vetralla with arms of Henry VIII, Pope Julius II and the English ambassador Cardinal Bainbridge. Ive done articles on substack, video too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehY3YyZRfg min 2,20
"I've talked to many friends about since I first learned this, and everyone insists it doesn't happen today" Are they sure? Lol but... I spoke with some friends, and they confirmed that, for instance, in tourist places they would never ever order polpette. Just a few days ago, I looked at the stuffing of a multilayered panino of a friend (Bolognesi who don't live in downtown often, like places I consider only touristic, strange but true). Anyway, I was looking at it thinking, Oh my god, how many leftovers is she eating? But she survived. I just read a message from her. Scherzi a parte, l'arte di arrangiarsi è una regola anche di alcuni ristoranti.
Maybe the secret is t avoid touristy places. I definitely do. I’d rather pick up a few things at a nearby alimentari than go to a place that boasts that they have a tourist menu, complete with photos. A waiter out front acting like I was already about to walk in is another red flag. Ditto for a woman in the front window making pasta. But if I’m in doubt, I guess I’ll avoid the polpette.
So interesting. The Italian “rule” that always messes me up there is the no-Parmesan-on-seafood thing. I think it’s wrong. I say this with respect, but I say it.
Ha! Yeah, I consciously avoided that one because it’s so weird and complicated.
As far as I can tell it’s mostly because of tradition: when you could only eat what was produced locally the places with fish and the places with cows rarely overlapped. I think Catholicism also plays a role: on Fridays and during lent you can eat seafood but not meat or cheese.
I think it probably persists because cheese is often too strong a taste for seafood. But mussels are sometimes served with peccorino, and pasta with sardines or roe can be served with cheese. In fact, Eel recipes usually involve cheese. But cheese is just a bad match for more delicate seafood.
Are there some fish/cheese dishes in Sweden?
This is actually a more interesting topic than it seemed in my head. I’m making note of it for a possible future newsletter post!
That’s so nice! It definitely seems funny in retrospect, but at the time it made me second guess my decision to move to Italy. What kind of country was this? What have I got myself into?!?
As someone who worked in restaurants, I 100% confirm the polpette thing and it's more common than y'all think. Also used for ragù, fillings and stuffings, and anything you can hide inside another ingredient. If you ever want to discuss what goes on behind closed doors in kitchens let me know, but rest assured that we're (usually) still super clean!
You should definitely do a piece about all the passive-aggressive italian phrases because 'è casa tua' cracks me up and it's so real.
Now you’re breaking my heart, Valentina! I don’t mind anyone adding undesirable cuts of meat to the grind. But table scraps? Next you’re going to tell me they combine the half-empty carafes of house wine back in the kitchen.
That “È casa tua” comment made me laugh out loud when it was first shared with me.
Anyway I think this happens most in some seasonal, highly touristy places. I had a boss at some point who would save all the untouched leftovers, including bread, but we definitely tossed the half-eaten stuff. The rare times in which wine bottles came back unfinished (bottles, not carafes), we'd finish them. But you don't want to hear stories from my mom...
The first high-end wines I ever tried — Dom Perignon, Stags Leap Cab, Chateau Musar — were all left undrunk in a fancy restaurant where I worked in my early 20s. Nothing wrong with that.
Please DON’T share your mom’s restaurant horror stories. I enjoy eating out too much!
The meatballs! I hope my brain can forget that part of the story.
Other than that you named a bunch of my husband’s favorite foods. Ossobucco has special memories for us. A favorite friend of ours, Tom, used to make it for us and it was DELICIOUS. I usually don’t eat veal so he would make mine with lamb; but anyway, ossobucco is difficult to find on a menu in most of the US. Most restaurants here in central Florida make it with pork when we can find it. It’s not the same as our friend’s from scratch, but still good. Tom’s ossobucco also was made con cariño as my husband would say, which can’t be substituted.
Tiramisù is another that my husband asks for that was mentioned in your article. He’s just fine with the one from the Publix bakery. Lol.
Italy truly has the best food in the world in my opinion. Even vegetables, I always say no one makes vegetables as delicious as the Italians. Roasted veggies, marinated or drizzled with balsamic, escarole pie, eggplant…
I hear you on the meatballs! I love 'em here: in bianco (lemon sauce), al sugo (as in the photo). When the reader told me that old story a few months back I told her she was breaking my heart. But I've been reassured enough times that that was something from another era that I'm back to ordering them!
Thanks for the shout out and for many new insights, Eric. I especially like the art of arrangiarsi—something I have not ever been able to explain to outsiders. It’s a nice complement to the bella figura concept and to tranquilla (I usually hear the feminine form), as you explain it. One need be flessibile, non, to survive in Italy?
Yes! I have a vague idea of a future post on how to recognize the new arrivals who'll probably manage to carve out a life here and those who won't make it and one of the central ideas I have is that if people are too rigid, they won't make it. It would be like someone's immune system rejecting an incompatible organ transplant.
Great analogy! I look forward to reading that one.
Well said, Etta 😍
Hey Eric, I say this with all the love in my heart - the questura guy knew you weren’t Italian because you mixed your grammar “lei sei pronto” is using both the formal and informal together. And usually when you enter a room or a house, you say “permesso”. I hope this helps! 😍
Always say permesso and you can’t go wrong 🥰
Besides, it was no secret I was a non-Italian ... everyone in line was, by definition. I think he was definitely mad about not being able to finish reading the paper (plus, if I remember correctly, both AS Roma and Lazio lost that weekend ... I could look that up to be sure).
I'm glad you noticed that!
Of course, I don't have that Questura experience recorded and I didn't take notes at the time. So I was trying to recreate the scene based on what seems like pretty vivid memories of it. I included the grammatical error on purpose to illustrate to those who'd notice (you're the first to mention it) that at that time I was a foreigner who'd only been in Italy a few months. I was undecided between "Lei sei pronto?" and "Lei pronto?" and I chose the first because it seemed more like what I'd say.
In this part of the story, I hadn't actually walked into his office yet. But even when I did, I wouldn't have said "permesso." Isn't that right? Someone's home, yes, or a more personal space. But an office where there are dozens of people in line? Would you say "permesso" in that circumstance?
Always a pleasure to read you, Eric! I'm a wellspring of stories... so never to hesitate to ask for more of them. And thanks for setting the record straight on cappuccino after noon. That is not and has never been a rule, and they can very cozy mid-afternoon on a winter day. After dinner is just heavy and bizarre for a population obsessed with digestion.... but no one will stop you!
My problem is a lack of time to write more than a shortage of ideas. But I still love talking about this kind of thing so I’ll take you up on the offer!
Ok, so this one took me into a little rabbit hole on magari, which I knew must be linked to the Greek μακάρι - I think you'll enjoy this: http://www.kypros.org/LearnGreek/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5534
Wow! How cool is that? There isn't much I like more than learning something new!
So, is μακάρι connected to your surname in some way? Are you Blessed Anita?
Re the surname, one of those threads suggests there *might* be a link: you'd describe something μακρό or μακρή as long or tall etc. - > "great, high" reference to Gods -> "exalted, blessed".
Looks like a long shot to me. But well, μακάρι ;-)
My wife's step-father is Greek ... I'll ask him about this next time we talk. So interesting!
Anita, I did a quick search in Italian and this came up. It’s from μακάριος (macarios, for those who can’t read Greek) which apparently means “beato / felice” happy / blessed.
I’m so curious! But the link doesn’t work. I studied Latin and Greek and love looking up word origins. P.S. Magri means slim in Italian (plural).
Very well written, thanks for sharing it with us 🫶
Thank you! Are any "regole non scritte" that come to mind from your experience?
Blue suits in the office, ideally in a bright navy shade. This is more true in the North than elsewhere in Italy, though. Also valid for weddings!
Oh my, you took me back to 1998 in Venice and waited forever for our permesso!!
The experience here wasn't too long after yours! I think that story dates to around January of 2000.
Yeah, someone hasn't experienced bureaucracy until they've experienced Italian bureaucracy!
So cool about te '06 Olympics! Will you go next year.
Agreed that the unwritten rules show how much you know a culture.
Yes, I'll be there! I'm really looking forward to it!
When I lived in Rome in the late 80s/early 90s, we had to pay all of our household bollette (bills) at the post office. Every month. Now, those were some lines!
That was before my time, but I do remember not being able to pay online -- you'd have to go to a bank or a tobbacaio. I asked once people then why we couldn't just mail a check (we did that ten in Peru, where I lived before moving to Italy) and people said "then we'd miss the human contact!" What human contact? The clerk almost always acted like he/she didn't want to be there!
hahah. It's still the same with Gazzetta dello Sport, but now people read it on their Tablets.
I didn't realize I helped, but you're welcome!
I don't know if it's still true. But it used to be true that La Gazzetta dell Sport was the most widely distributed newspaper in Italy on Mondays. The other six days, it's Corriere della Sera.
interesting.... I pity you the long lines at the ufficio stranieri... I learned back in the early 70s if my future father in law in his high officer's uniform came with me, it was all so easy
I bet that would help! That's another rule: it's not what you know it's who you know!
I still have to renew my permesso every two years, but it's much easier now since they have a special process for credentialed journalists. But for most non-Europeans who want to be here legally, it's a real pain.
You should have seen them snap to attention !! no problems after that...it also helped that I got married to his son a few years later.
Im hoping Vatican and UK journalists pick up the story of the 1512 monument in Vetralla with arms of Henry VIII, Pope Julius II and the English ambassador Cardinal Bainbridge. Ive done articles on substack, video too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehY3YyZRfg min 2,20
"I've talked to many friends about since I first learned this, and everyone insists it doesn't happen today" Are they sure? Lol but... I spoke with some friends, and they confirmed that, for instance, in tourist places they would never ever order polpette. Just a few days ago, I looked at the stuffing of a multilayered panino of a friend (Bolognesi who don't live in downtown often, like places I consider only touristic, strange but true). Anyway, I was looking at it thinking, Oh my god, how many leftovers is she eating? But she survived. I just read a message from her. Scherzi a parte, l'arte di arrangiarsi è una regola anche di alcuni ristoranti.
Maybe the secret is t avoid touristy places. I definitely do. I’d rather pick up a few things at a nearby alimentari than go to a place that boasts that they have a tourist menu, complete with photos. A waiter out front acting like I was already about to walk in is another red flag. Ditto for a woman in the front window making pasta. But if I’m in doubt, I guess I’ll avoid the polpette.
So interesting. The Italian “rule” that always messes me up there is the no-Parmesan-on-seafood thing. I think it’s wrong. I say this with respect, but I say it.
Ha! Yeah, I consciously avoided that one because it’s so weird and complicated.
As far as I can tell it’s mostly because of tradition: when you could only eat what was produced locally the places with fish and the places with cows rarely overlapped. I think Catholicism also plays a role: on Fridays and during lent you can eat seafood but not meat or cheese.
I think it probably persists because cheese is often too strong a taste for seafood. But mussels are sometimes served with peccorino, and pasta with sardines or roe can be served with cheese. In fact, Eel recipes usually involve cheese. But cheese is just a bad match for more delicate seafood.
Are there some fish/cheese dishes in Sweden?
This is actually a more interesting topic than it seemed in my head. I’m making note of it for a possible future newsletter post!
Always so interesting!!!! 😍
Thank you again, Lucrezia!
Your opening story is absolutely delightful
That’s so nice! It definitely seems funny in retrospect, but at the time it made me second guess my decision to move to Italy. What kind of country was this? What have I got myself into?!?
As someone who worked in restaurants, I 100% confirm the polpette thing and it's more common than y'all think. Also used for ragù, fillings and stuffings, and anything you can hide inside another ingredient. If you ever want to discuss what goes on behind closed doors in kitchens let me know, but rest assured that we're (usually) still super clean!
You should definitely do a piece about all the passive-aggressive italian phrases because 'è casa tua' cracks me up and it's so real.
Now you’re breaking my heart, Valentina! I don’t mind anyone adding undesirable cuts of meat to the grind. But table scraps? Next you’re going to tell me they combine the half-empty carafes of house wine back in the kitchen.
That “È casa tua” comment made me laugh out loud when it was first shared with me.
🫢🤐 Sorry!
Anyway I think this happens most in some seasonal, highly touristy places. I had a boss at some point who would save all the untouched leftovers, including bread, but we definitely tossed the half-eaten stuff. The rare times in which wine bottles came back unfinished (bottles, not carafes), we'd finish them. But you don't want to hear stories from my mom...
The first high-end wines I ever tried — Dom Perignon, Stags Leap Cab, Chateau Musar — were all left undrunk in a fancy restaurant where I worked in my early 20s. Nothing wrong with that.
Please DON’T share your mom’s restaurant horror stories. I enjoy eating out too much!
Oh no no no.